My Short Anwer:

I don't think most of us can say with absolute certainty if RS is unethical or not. I think trying to control someone against their free will is not only unethical but will hurt you as well. Instead of using RS to force someone to fall for you, I think it's better to practice self-love: to believe in yourself, to believe in higher love, to believe and feel that you are worthy of that love, and to feel and know how attractive you are. That relieves the tension, feels better, and helps you attract more of what you want.


My Long Answer:

I don't think there's a definitive answer. We're working with models and "out of the box" knowledge of which we don't know the true impact, we only know theories on it and match it up to our own experiences. It's like Economics 101 all over again when we read up that minimum wages are bad for the economy, but it was only a theory and only some economists support it, it wasn't ultimate truth - only a way of thinking. When you do the econometric research and gather empirical evidence, it's not that black and white. Plus, ethics are subjective.

Is Remote Seduction (RS) unethical? Some will say that it's black magic, some say it abuses the power of our mind to manipulate the free will of others, some call it spiritual rape. Is it black magic? Depends on how you look at it. Do you think it's evil or selfish to influence a person against their will? If yes, then it's black magic. But what if they do like you and want to be with you? Is it bad then? And aren't we all influencing people all the time? And what constitutes free will? Does free will even exist? I'd like to think so, but I don't know for sure. For those who do believe in free will and practice RS, a common explanation I read is that RS is sending love energy and feelings to the person ("target") and they feel it at a subconscious level, but have the free will to respond to it. They claim it's ethical because you're not taking away their free will, but then again they assert that it's important to keep doing RS so that the person's feelings become so strong that they will become desperate for you and choose you. To me, this sounds like they're trying to manipulate people's emotions to override their free will. And it sucks to have strong feelings for someone that you wish you didn't have, so in that sense it's unfair for the "target." As for the spiritual rape argument, do we not have our own fantasies? So having a sexual fantasy or a love fantasy is spiritual rape? If so, we're all guilty. And how many sexual fantasies out there have actually attracted the person? I used to fantasize about Mila Kunis all the time, but she's not here with me (although I did attract a nice girl who reminded me of her, that was good . Imagine all the men fantasizing about Mila Kunis or some Victoria's Secret model. They're all having elaborate sexual fantasies but how many of them actually end up with them? RS does sound silly from that standpoint, but maybe the difference lies in intention and belief. For those men, the fantasy is for fun, there is no intention to get with those woman because maybe it's not their ultimate desire or maybe they don't believe it's possible for them. But then again, they say that belief is built on feeling, and to attract our desire we simply have to feel it as a reality now. That's why Abraham is popular on this forum - feeling good now attracts more of what makes you feel good or so the advice goes. So if all these people have felt these fantasies to be so real, why haven't they manifested? It does make RS seem strange and disingenuous.

This is not to say that I believe that RS is ineffective. I've used it before and seen results, I'll talk about that later. I also have my own reasons against RS which I will talk about later. Others will contest that RS is wonderful and good. Ultimately, it's visualization. Neville Goddard is very popular on the LoA forums and he wrote about feeling the wish fulfilled by visualizing a scene that makes you feel like your desire is accomplished. If your desire is to attract a specific person, visualizing love/sex scenes may help you feel the wish fulfilled, and it manifests your desire via the power of your subconscious mind. In this model of LoA, I think free will is an illusion for him. All of our experience is pure imagination, pure consciousness, so we can have everything we want - that's the impression I got from reading Neville Goddard's Feeling Is The Secret. RS is just visualization to get the feeling of the wish fulfilled and this gives you belief and belief attracts your desire, free will is irrelevant. This is a common story that lots of people hoping to attract a specific person will subscribe to and they will relay how Neville attracted his specific mate and that this is "proof" for them to keep doing RS on the person they desire, but Neville also said:

"I tell you one thing- do not concern yourself with the means, always go to the end and you'll hurt no one.
But if you try to devise the means, you're messing the whole thing up. I have had people say to me:
"I want that man and no other man" and I say "No you don't...You want to be happily married. You don't want that man or no man."
"Oh yes- that man or no man!"
Then of course it always shocks them. I say "If he'd drop dead right now, would you want to be married?"
"Well... he isn't going to drop!"
"I didn't ask you that. If he'd drop dead right now or if he was right this moment accused of being the world's greatest thief or a murderer-  you still want him?"
"Why ask those questions Neville? I want that man!"
But you see, it isn't that man. They want to be happily married. Well I have gone to so many weddings where it was either that man or none and it wasn't that man. And they are embarrassed when they see me while walking down the isle, because it had to be that man or no man and here it isn't that man at all. And they walk down and they are happy with their new mate, but they're a little sheepish when they pass by because they know I know it wasn't that man." 

So on one hand, we have the idea that we can attract anyone we wish with RS, on the other hand it's like we should focus not on the specific person but on the feeling behind the desire. Why do you want that specific person? Because you want to feel loved, attractive, confident? Then focus on feeling that way and you'll attract what truly will give you more of that experience, which may or may not be the specific person. This isn't about ethics, it's more about focus - focus on what you really want, what you really want is not that specific person but the feelings that you'll enjoy if you had a good relationship with that specific person. So does the specific person really matter if you can have the same great feelings you desire from being in a relationship with someone else? That's why the focus is on the end goal - not the person - but the feelings (love, confidence, feeling passionate and alive). In this sense, RS is not unethical, it's simply fantasy to feel the feelings you want and that attracts more of what will truly make you feel the way you want.

There are also other theories out there. One is that we can step into multiple universes in which we are with that specific person by visualizing, so then RS isn't unethical - it's just bringing in the universe you want. But it's just a theory, who knows if it's real? And back to the free will debate, people may say that it doesn't matter if the person you're doing the techniques on feel happy as a result of it. It doesn't matter if you messed with their free will or implanted artificial feelings in them, if they're happy then they're happy and nothing else matters. But what happens if someone tries to do this to you? Would it be ethical then? Would it be right? I've never understood people who practice RS and say "No, this person is unattractive, no way he'll ever get with me..." but they use RS to get with someone believing that this technique can make people fall in love with them. If it's true for you, then it's true for others. If you can use RS on them, they can use RS on you, and if they did that would you like it? What ever happened to don't do unto others what you wouldn't want done to you? Imagine how crazy the world would be if we could all truly control each other like that. The other side of this argument is an Abe-Hicks one: we create our reality. We each have our own realities that we create in, so in your reality you can have the guy you want but the other guy that you don't like who wants you won't get you. I guess it boils down to our paradigms - what we choose to believe in.

So is RS ethical? There are several theories for and against it. I do think RS works, but I'm not sure in what context and ethics is up for grabs. Does it work as an intention to make someone fall for you and simply by visualizing that you get what you desire? Or does it work by helping you feel good and you'll attract love but it may or may not be from the specific person you desire? I've read stories where RS worked like magic and horroe stories where RS messed everything up. In my own experiences, RS was weird. The more I practiced it, the more other girls started showing interest while the specific girl I desired took a little longer to show interest. She would get flirty days after RS when I gave it a rest. The common explanation for this is that I made her feel intense feelings and she was resistant to them at first. Maybe it helped me to feel more attractive so I attracted that experience of feeling that way. Sometimes it opened up my intuition and gave me ideas on talking to the girl I liked, I would get nudges of inspiration to go somewhere and she's there, I'd text first and she'd ask me to meet her, sometimes my intuition told me to stop and let her go even though my ego said no. I stopped with RS because I realized I didn't really want a relationship and I realized the girl I wanted wasn't right for me. And I was using it as a crutch to escape my fears. I was very shy back then and didn't want to make the first move, so I thought RS was my insurance against rejection. But I spent all that time living in fantasy instead of actually building up the confidence to take the risk, which was really all I needed. Instead of using RS to find confidence, I was using it to avoid my fear and that made it worse. It wasn't until I "gave up" RS and focused on having confidence that everything worked out. And RS can give you artificial feelings, it can fool you into believing you are in love with someone even though you may not truly be in love. 

I'm not completely against RS. It's fun and sometimes effortless when you really like someone or you just desire a new love. Nothing wrong with visualizing love. To me, it helps you find new loves or open up your intuition/confidence to help you meet/interact with the person you desire. In my book, its a good way to feel more attractive, and that can influence yourself at a subconscious level. Naturally, others will react. It is creepy to me when people use it to control others. I tried that when I was 17 and looking back I felt like a loser doing it. If you have to make someone love you, it's not really love. If you have to force someone to lust for you, you're not really seducing them, you're controlling them. In a real relationship, that's called abuse. Most of the time, I see desperate brokenhearted people attracted to RS. It's harsh but true. Across the forums, there are so many stories of depressed people hoping for a quick fix to get a specific person to love them. They'll have a confirmation bias - hoping for any evidence to prove what they want to believe in, neglecting anything else. I was like that once and when I had more confidence in myself I felt like a new person and it seemed so strange to me. So many people using a technique to force someone to love them, to force happiness - jeez, love yourself first and be free of that. To me, it's easier to make yourself confident first, to create better beliefs like you are attractive enough and letting that make a new world of happiness for you instead of trying to desperately control someone to be happy. I don't have to do RS or visualize to get my friends and family to love me, so why should I do it to get someone else to love me? Can you imagine being in a relationship with someone and you have to visualize all the time just to get them to text you back? Doesn't sound good to me lol. And here's the sad part: I've noticed that when people feel so depressed, brokenhearted, and desperate - ethics will fly out the window if they want a quick fix badly enough. It won't matter if they are controlling someone against their free will, as long as they get what they want. Nowadays I think to myself "Yeah, I'm not that unattractive and desperate that I have to control people to make them love me. I'll just believe in myself and everything will work out." Ironically, I think trying to control someone creates more harm than good. It's not uncommon to here stories of RS where someone forces the technique and expects good results straight away, but doesn't get them. Not only may RS make them fall deeper in love, but the absence of results feels like pain, so it's a vicious cycle. In a way it's ironic karma for trying to control someone.

Here's why I'm against RS for "selfish" reasons:

1. It can fool you into thinking you have deeper feelings for someone even though it's artificial. Sometimes I wonder if it tricks people into thinking a specific person they desire is their soulmate ot perfect partner and that only that person can satisfy them. By believing this, they aren't open to other possibilities and it's a vicious cycle when rejection comes - like keeping themselves in perpetual suffering.

2. Focusing specifically on this person can make you see them through rose-colored glasses, you're falling for an ideal, not the real person. Not only can unrealistic expectations like this stress out relationships, but it's a hard landing for you. Maybe it's just me, but I think love is better when two people really like each other, when there's a good balance.

3. The intent to control can be a lot of stress because you may be hellbent on results. It's easier to just do this for fun - to visualize and feel love/sex for the fun of it and let everything else work out. Seeking to control can make you more insecure.

4. When you're feeling depressed, unattractive, lonely, heartbroken, etc. it's easy to like the feeling of control - I sure did. But when I became confident in myself again, I felt ashamed of myself for trying to control someone and disregarding their free will and their own desires. I'd rather be the confident me and that's how I feel about RS and control when I feel good.

5. It's easier and better to make a belief in your own attractiveness and your own ability to have love instead of constantly forcing someone to act a certain way for you. Instead of forcing and controlling, just feel the reality you want and enjoy it. When you truly believe something, there's no stress to it.


But I'm all for RS/visualization for fun, to feel fun - not the control. When you really think about it, are the sexiest, most seductive people (or those in good relationships) spending all their time trying to make someone love them? To force someone to love you implies that you believe you're not inherently lovable. Maybe they just know and feel that they are attractive and lovable and that's what makes them "seductive" and "sexy"?
 

Last edited by Colonel Roosevelt (4/22/2016 12:26 pm)

I'm new here.. I've enjoyed reading everyone's posts on this forum I've just been wondering if RS is a major thing in manifesting an ex back? or is it possible with just general visualizations?? Have there been success stories without the use of RS??

Thanks

Last edited by Rainbows (4/23/2016 8:22 pm)

They are all processes to raise your vibration. You have to tap into the feeling place of having what you desire already in your life. If you can do that through scripting, then use that. If imagining is your preferred method, utilise that. Every technique is simply another way to coax your vibration upwards into happier frequencies.

Cherished wrote:

They are all processes to raise your vibration. You have to tap into the feeling place of having what you desire already in your life. If you can do that through scripting, then use that. If imagining is your preferred method, utilise that. Every technique is simply another way to coax your vibration upwards into happier frequencies.

Thank you!! This is helpful.. I understand better now.. really appreciate you!!!!

PlumPuppy wrote:

If you've ever read any of Neville Goddard's books, he says that there really is no such thing as "free will" in the way we believe it. We are ALL ALWAYS being influenced by something, all the time. Whether it be circumstances, people, the media, conditions, environment, beliefs, etc. So just because someone may respond to RS doesn't mean you interfered with their choice(s). It's like seeing a commercial on tv for McDonald's. You may have not even thought about eating there, but the commercial made you hungry for a burger. As you're driving, you see a McDonald's and decide to stop and get one. It was your own free choice to buy the burger, McD's didn't FORCE you to stop there, you just had the idea that a burger was good and McD's was there. I believe it's the same with RS. People will always be influenced by something or someone anyway... so why not you? At least your intentions are good and the other person will benefit too. Read Neville's books, he explains it really well and backs it up with scripture.

What a good explanation!