fizzy wrote:

oceanitrogen wrote:

I am in fact interested! And I kinda agree, not a hundred percent but what you said makes way more sense. You believe we create our own reality but people are still there and they exist separately from us, right? I believe it a bit different, but it's similar! I believe free will does exist and everything isn't our conciousness, I believewe can influence things and people and situations and that's why we can manifest anything we want. Because if we want it enough, with pure intentions, it manifests. For example (because I suck at explaining), I want to manifest the person I love back into my life. I believe that I can manifest him because I truly love him and don't just simply want him becauseI want to feel desired or whatever. I believe he can feel the love I feel for him and it's impossible for him to ignore because energy influences everything around us. Hope that made sense. It probably didn' though.

I believe people are separate, but what you experience of a person in your reality is completely your own creation, if that makes sense. Free will does exist but it never ever hinders you from creating anything you want, because whatever you want with another person, there is a version of that person that wants the same thing. Everything you see and will ever see is made up of your own consciousness. You can’t experience anything outside of your own consciousness, like a dream.

I guess where I disagree with you and where people who follow Neville will disagree with you is where you said we influence other people. Many people who view reality that way will say other people feel our energy and are either attracted or repelled it. But nothing is ever attracted to you or repelled by you. Everything comes FROM you as your own creation, even other people. And even if you were coming from a place of needing a relationship with him to feel better about yourself, you could still manifest one with him with your beliefs. All you ever need to manifest anything is the belief that you have it. You can hate yourself, feel unworthy of your desire, be needy, etc. But if you can still manage to believe another person loves you, you will manifest that person loving you.

I don't believe in that part that we can only experience our own conciousness. That makes zero sense to me. But it's okay though, we can agree to disagree. But I do believe we can manifest anything as long as we live in the end. It doesn't matter how we feel. But if our intentions are not pure, if you want to manifest someone for revenge for example, it will not happen. I believe life is more about learning and improving ourselves than living a pertect life like some people who believe in the law of attraction tend to believe. I believe in karma and all that jazz. Yeah. But we don't need to agree.

PrettyFlamingo wrote:

As an aside but sort of connected to this discussion, I'm reading this on the train to work. In front of me is an empty train seat covered with blue fabric. I can see that. The guy next to me can also. It's a blue train seat. If anyone says it's a purple alligator, they're wrong! Not just seeing their own version of reality, it's their fantasy. How will that make the train seat become a real purple alligator?

 
I don't think you understood at all what we were talking about to come up with a comment like that.

PrettyFlamingo wrote:

As an aside but sort of connected to this discussion, I'm reading this on the train to work. In front of me is an empty train seat covered with blue fabric. I can see that. The guy next to me can also. It's a blue train seat. If anyone says it's a purple alligator, they're wrong! Not just seeing their own version of reality, it's their fantasy. How will that make the train seat become a real purple alligator?

That's one of the proofs for me that everything is not our conciousness. If it were, we would control reality and people wouldn't be called crazy. Because they'd making others see what they are seeing. Just the fact that everyone elae sees and experiences what we experience, and if we have some mental problem and see something that is not there, people don't see it, proves to me that the world is how the world is. We don't control it. We can simply attract things and situations. But we definitely don't have the power to make them up and change stuff.

PrettyFlamingo wrote:

Maybe not the right thread to put this on! It was a random thought that came into my mind prompted by this discussion, and the context I found myself in. Probably not helpful!

I found it very very helpful!

oceanitrogen wrote:

My point here is: We're cocreaters. Not creaters. Why do we need to let it go and put it in the hands of the Universe to do it for us? Because it's the Universe (God) who has the real power. We simply have the power to cocreate with it. But it is the Universe who does it all for us. We're not Gods exactly because of that. We don't have the power to create new things, we can only take what the universe gives us and manipulate it, but we're not able to create things from nothing. And if everything was our conciousness, people wouldn't be so different from us and see things differently and perceive things their own way exactly because we don't have that ability to create things from nothing. If everything was our conciousness, that's mean that we create a reality where people are absurdly different from everything we are and believe and we create that out of nothing because it doesn't exist inside us. And our subconcious is not able to create people and differences. It is not. We can't even create faces. When we dream, we dream faces we have seen before. Our brain isn't able to create. We are not able to create. Because creating is having nothing and building something. Humans can only modify what already exists, but we cannot create. We cocreate. Yeah. I think I finally put it into words in a way that makes sense.

 
You're entitled to your opinion. You can believe what you like, but you might as well not study Neville because his teachings are about the opposite of your beliefs. I can now see why you were so upset by that Neville forum, apart from their rudeness, I mean.